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	<title>Comments on: Flaming Gamers</title>
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	<description>Inductive Game Design Research</description>
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		<title>By: Krystian Majewski</title>
		<link>http://gamedesignreviews.com/scrapbook/flaming-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-81108</link>
		<dc:creator>Krystian Majewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2012 17:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamedesignreviews.com/?p=7139#comment-81108</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Sure, there are a LOT of angry immature inflamatory comments, but amid them are legitimate criticisms of the entire project&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You think it&#039;s in the details why she deserves that kind of hate? If that was the case, that would have toe be ONE HELL of a detail, don&#039;t you think? At this point, she would need to be committing some kind of genocide. Who&#039;s the one being naive here? This is nowhere near &quot;legitimate criticisms&quot;. Don&#039;t fool yourself.

&lt;blockquote&gt;that anita sarkeesian is deliberately using the influx of hatemail to ignore.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

I&#039;ve seen this argument before numerous times. Here is a thought experiment to do. A pretty rational one. You know Science, right? There is something called &quot;falsification&quot;. In order to check if a certain theory can be maintained, you check for way of how this theory could be disproved. If it can&#039;t be disproved, it&#039;s not a theory, it&#039;s &quot;like, just your opinion, man&quot;.

Applied to this situation: how should Anita behave in this situation? If she moderates the comments she&#039;s being slammed for silencing &quot;valid criticism&quot;. If she doesn&#039;t moderate the comments she told she&#039;s playing the victim card. What do you think would be the right way for her to react? How would you react if you were in her place?

As for the videos you posted:

nstig8iveJournalism - clearly has no idea how academic writing actually works. Even without going into his fallacious statements - Is he seriously doubting the decision of the Professors, who deemed her work worthy of a degree? Isn&#039;t that a criticism of the Professors and not of Anita? And even if Anita didn&#039;t have a degree - why is that a reason she shouldn&#039;t be posting videos on YouTube or doing Kickstarter projects? He&#039;s not really making any sense there.

foreverpandering - clearly has no idea how documentaries work. He advocates this weird assumption that all documentaries must show an unbiased view of all parties involved. That&#039;s an well-known fallacy called &quot;view from nowhere&quot;.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_from_Nowhere
In fact, no documentary is an objective one. The ones that claim they are, are the most manipulative ones... and also the most boring ones as well. That being said, Anita hasn&#039;t actually released a documentary about games yet. He may accuse her of being biased, but only after the video has been actually made.

And even if the above videos were right and Anita was actually a bad academic or a bad filmmaker - this would be still no justification for silencing her and insulting her.
I do applaud efforts of actually expressing criticism in a more civilized way. However, so far I found only petty and ill-informed attempts at Ad Hominem attacks.

&lt;blockquote&gt;There are tons of videos and articles like this out there, but they are being drowned out by people getting mad, and they have a great reason to get mad. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Read the above sentence carefully. What you are doing here is condemning the hatred and justifying it at the same time. No, nobody has a good reason to wish her cancer or call her a &quot;FAT JEW&quot; or silence her.

&lt;blockqote&gt;They’re being told to swallow shit that they don’t agree with and just accept that as a culture they’re bad people, sexist and discriminatory.&lt;/blockqute&gt;

Woah, wait a second here. This is a key point right here and something I mentioned my article.

If she criticizes some games for being sexist, that doesn&#039;t mean that everybody, who likes the games or even made the games is being sexist. She doesn&#039;t call anybody bad people, especially not gamers. That&#039;s projection caused by &quot;Cognitive Dissonance&quot;. In fact, on Twitter she admitted that she herself enjoyed Rayman Origins even though she thought some parts were sexist. No game is perfect. Not every game must be a paragon of gender equality. It&#039;s perfectly fine to enjoy a game even though it&#039;s sexist or faulty in some other way. A game&#039;s quality is determined by gender equality alone. And guess what - some people don&#039;t even care that much. But it should be obvious that it would be a deal-breaker for others.

I find it hard not to agree that she has a point in there somewhere. She might be over-reacting in some cases. She might be glossing over some details in other cases. I certainly disagreed with her in the past myself. But there is no denying that she does have a point and she is far from the only to make it: Gaming is a male-dominated industry. And while it works fine, it&#039;s not a healthy way for this medium to develop in the long run. As more and more female gamers and game developers are coming in, we must look for ways to make games acknowledge that kind of responsibility. That&#039;s just a reasonable pro-games stance, even if you don&#039;t consider yourself a Feminist. Hell, it&#039;s even financially reasonable.

Nobody wants to censor or ban anything. Nobody is calling anybody a bad person for playing games. Nobody wants to even prevent games like Bayonetta from being made. In fact, I claim that Bayonetta&#039;s qualities would have been recognized better if it wasn&#039;t being released in an environment where sexism is so common. I consider the game a clever joke that just hit too close home for people to &quot;get it&quot;. We, as gamers, just need to acknowledge that this just MIGHT be one of your problems. You don&#039;t have to agree with Anita. Just keep playing games and look for examples that prove or disprove her. Or just don&#039;t and ignore her.

But don&#039;t insult her and for the love of god, let her make her videos. You know there are certainly worse people uploading videos as we speak.

And since you apparently love watching videos, I&#039;m gonna leave Movie Bob&#039;s take on this. It pretty much sums up my stance on this:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/5950-Tropes-vs-MovieBob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Sure, there are a LOT of angry immature inflamatory comments, but amid them are legitimate criticisms of the entire project</p></blockquote>
<p>You think it&#8217;s in the details why she deserves that kind of hate? If that was the case, that would have toe be ONE HELL of a detail, don&#8217;t you think? At this point, she would need to be committing some kind of genocide. Who&#8217;s the one being naive here? This is nowhere near &#8220;legitimate criticisms&#8221;. Don&#8217;t fool yourself.</p>
<blockquote><p>that anita sarkeesian is deliberately using the influx of hatemail to ignore.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen this argument before numerous times. Here is a thought experiment to do. A pretty rational one. You know Science, right? There is something called &#8220;falsification&#8221;. In order to check if a certain theory can be maintained, you check for way of how this theory could be disproved. If it can&#8217;t be disproved, it&#8217;s not a theory, it&#8217;s &#8220;like, just your opinion, man&#8221;.</p>
<p>Applied to this situation: how should Anita behave in this situation? If she moderates the comments she&#8217;s being slammed for silencing &#8220;valid criticism&#8221;. If she doesn&#8217;t moderate the comments she told she&#8217;s playing the victim card. What do you think would be the right way for her to react? How would you react if you were in her place?</p>
<p>As for the videos you posted:</p>
<p>nstig8iveJournalism &#8211; clearly has no idea how academic writing actually works. Even without going into his fallacious statements &#8211; Is he seriously doubting the decision of the Professors, who deemed her work worthy of a degree? Isn&#8217;t that a criticism of the Professors and not of Anita? And even if Anita didn&#8217;t have a degree &#8211; why is that a reason she shouldn&#8217;t be posting videos on YouTube or doing Kickstarter projects? He&#8217;s not really making any sense there.</p>
<p>foreverpandering &#8211; clearly has no idea how documentaries work. He advocates this weird assumption that all documentaries must show an unbiased view of all parties involved. That&#8217;s an well-known fallacy called &#8220;view from nowhere&#8221;.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_from_Nowhere" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_from_Nowhere</a><br />
In fact, no documentary is an objective one. The ones that claim they are, are the most manipulative ones&#8230; and also the most boring ones as well. That being said, Anita hasn&#8217;t actually released a documentary about games yet. He may accuse her of being biased, but only after the video has been actually made.</p>
<p>And even if the above videos were right and Anita was actually a bad academic or a bad filmmaker &#8211; this would be still no justification for silencing her and insulting her.<br />
I do applaud efforts of actually expressing criticism in a more civilized way. However, so far I found only petty and ill-informed attempts at Ad Hominem attacks.</p>
<blockquote><p>There are tons of videos and articles like this out there, but they are being drowned out by people getting mad, and they have a great reason to get mad. </p></blockquote>
<p>Read the above sentence carefully. What you are doing here is condemning the hatred and justifying it at the same time. No, nobody has a good reason to wish her cancer or call her a &#8220;FAT JEW&#8221; or silence her.</p>
<p><blockqote>They’re being told to swallow shit that they don’t agree with and just accept that as a culture they’re bad people, sexist and discriminatory.</p>
<p>Woah, wait a second here. This is a key point right here and something I mentioned my article.</p>
<p>If she criticizes some games for being sexist, that doesn&#8217;t mean that everybody, who likes the games or even made the games is being sexist. She doesn&#8217;t call anybody bad people, especially not gamers. That&#8217;s projection caused by &#8220;Cognitive Dissonance&#8221;. In fact, on Twitter she admitted that she herself enjoyed Rayman Origins even though she thought some parts were sexist. No game is perfect. Not every game must be a paragon of gender equality. It&#8217;s perfectly fine to enjoy a game even though it&#8217;s sexist or faulty in some other way. A game&#8217;s quality is determined by gender equality alone. And guess what &#8211; some people don&#8217;t even care that much. But it should be obvious that it would be a deal-breaker for others.</p>
<p>I find it hard not to agree that she has a point in there somewhere. She might be over-reacting in some cases. She might be glossing over some details in other cases. I certainly disagreed with her in the past myself. But there is no denying that she does have a point and she is far from the only to make it: Gaming is a male-dominated industry. And while it works fine, it&#8217;s not a healthy way for this medium to develop in the long run. As more and more female gamers and game developers are coming in, we must look for ways to make games acknowledge that kind of responsibility. That&#8217;s just a reasonable pro-games stance, even if you don&#8217;t consider yourself a Feminist. Hell, it&#8217;s even financially reasonable.</p>
<p>Nobody wants to censor or ban anything. Nobody is calling anybody a bad person for playing games. Nobody wants to even prevent games like Bayonetta from being made. In fact, I claim that Bayonetta&#8217;s qualities would have been recognized better if it wasn&#8217;t being released in an environment where sexism is so common. I consider the game a clever joke that just hit too close home for people to &#8220;get it&#8221;. We, as gamers, just need to acknowledge that this just MIGHT be one of your problems. You don&#8217;t have to agree with Anita. Just keep playing games and look for examples that prove or disprove her. Or just don&#8217;t and ignore her.</p>
<p>But don&#8217;t insult her and for the love of god, let her make her videos. You know there are certainly worse people uploading videos as we speak.</p>
<p>And since you apparently love watching videos, I&#8217;m gonna leave Movie Bob&#8217;s take on this. It pretty much sums up my stance on this:<br />
<a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/5950-Tropes-vs-MovieBob" rel="nofollow">http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/5950-Tropes-vs-MovieBob</a></blockqote></p>
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		<title>By: Evilagram</title>
		<link>http://gamedesignreviews.com/scrapbook/flaming-gamers/comment-page-1/#comment-81070</link>
		<dc:creator>Evilagram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2012 13:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamedesignreviews.com/?p=7139#comment-81070</guid>
		<description>You know, I think you&#039;re absolutely naive. You&#039;re seeing the surface that&#039;s presented to you instead of any of the actual details. Sure, there are a LOT of angry immature inflamatory comments, but amid them are legitimate criticisms of the entire project that anita sarkeesian is deliberately using the influx of hatemail to ignore. Notice how she is not moderating the comments of these videos promoting the tropes versus women in videogames, unlike most or all of her other ones, and how when she responded to the comments on her site, she did not acknowledge any of the legitimate criticisms or comments made against her. she knew that she would get a vicious backlash and used this to put a spin on things in order to draw sympathy and play the victim card.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI&amp;feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFk5F-S_hI&amp;feature=g-all-f

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igXz_hXKUcE&amp;feature=plcp

http://feminiism.tumblr.com/post/27904591438/thanks-for-the-200-000-and-free-shit-suckers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbihPTgAql4 (watch with annotations, this video was removed from her channel for being so outrageously wrong)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQJFWt84xxo&amp;feature=related

There are tons of videos and articles like this out there, but they are being drowned out by people getting mad, and they have a great reason to get mad. They&#039;re being told to swallow shit that they don&#039;t agree with and just accept that as a culture they&#039;re bad people, sexist and discriminatory. She doesn&#039;t even suggest any manner of action against these &quot;issues&quot;.

On another note people are pissed off at her because she is pushing a whole ton of shit that no one agrees with about feminism. Anita is not supporting any type of empowerment of women, she&#039;s supporting an abuse of victimhood to get more power for women and create a society that blames men for largely nonexistent or inconsequential &quot;offenses&quot;, while failing to blame women for very real offenses, such as domestic violence, rape, and assault.

She has no defensible position, her entire platform is complaining about how media makes us do things that media does not actually do or suggest. She is reading and writing a narrative that does not exist, and people are not happy with her doing this, and she is using the irrational hatred as a means of portraying anyone who disagrees with her as backwards and misogynistic, something that none of the people angry at her would ever claim to be, picture themselves as, or could be construed as in their actions, except exclusively in opposition to her.

Furthermore her actions severely harm the rights of men. I&#039;m not an MRA, I&#039;m not going to talk to you about men&#039;s rights, girlwriteswhat does it better anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat/videos</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I think you&#8217;re absolutely naive. You&#8217;re seeing the surface that&#8217;s presented to you instead of any of the actual details. Sure, there are a LOT of angry immature inflamatory comments, but amid them are legitimate criticisms of the entire project that anita sarkeesian is deliberately using the influx of hatemail to ignore. Notice how she is not moderating the comments of these videos promoting the tropes versus women in videogames, unlike most or all of her other ones, and how when she responded to the comments on her site, she did not acknowledge any of the legitimate criticisms or comments made against her. she knew that she would get a vicious backlash and used this to put a spin on things in order to draw sympathy and play the victim card.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI&amp;feature=relmfu" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI&amp;feature=relmfu</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFk5F-S_hI&amp;feature=g-all-f" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFk5F-S_hI&amp;feature=g-all-f</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igXz_hXKUcE&amp;feature=plcp" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igXz_hXKUcE&amp;feature=plcp</a></p>
<p><a href="http://feminiism.tumblr.com/post/27904591438/thanks-for-the-200-000-and-free-shit-suckers" rel="nofollow">http://feminiism.tumblr.com/post/27904591438/thanks-for-the-200-000-and-free-shit-suckers</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbihPTgAql4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbihPTgAql4</a> (watch with annotations, this video was removed from her channel for being so outrageously wrong)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQJFWt84xxo&amp;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQJFWt84xxo&amp;feature=related</a></p>
<p>There are tons of videos and articles like this out there, but they are being drowned out by people getting mad, and they have a great reason to get mad. They&#8217;re being told to swallow shit that they don&#8217;t agree with and just accept that as a culture they&#8217;re bad people, sexist and discriminatory. She doesn&#8217;t even suggest any manner of action against these &#8220;issues&#8221;.</p>
<p>On another note people are pissed off at her because she is pushing a whole ton of shit that no one agrees with about feminism. Anita is not supporting any type of empowerment of women, she&#8217;s supporting an abuse of victimhood to get more power for women and create a society that blames men for largely nonexistent or inconsequential &#8220;offenses&#8221;, while failing to blame women for very real offenses, such as domestic violence, rape, and assault.</p>
<p>She has no defensible position, her entire platform is complaining about how media makes us do things that media does not actually do or suggest. She is reading and writing a narrative that does not exist, and people are not happy with her doing this, and she is using the irrational hatred as a means of portraying anyone who disagrees with her as backwards and misogynistic, something that none of the people angry at her would ever claim to be, picture themselves as, or could be construed as in their actions, except exclusively in opposition to her.</p>
<p>Furthermore her actions severely harm the rights of men. I&#8217;m not an MRA, I&#8217;m not going to talk to you about men&#8217;s rights, girlwriteswhat does it better anyway.<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat/videos" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/user/girlwriteswhat/videos</a></p>
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